Talk:Center for Applied Rationality

This article was nominated for deletion on 10 June 2017. The result of the discussion was keep.

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Futures studies

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Effective Altruism C‑class Mid‑importance

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Suggested source

Add http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/17/magazine/the-happiness-code.html perhaps? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.198.123.3 (talk) 11:09, 16 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Promotional tone

I've flagged this article for promotional language. The most blatant violation is the inclusion of the price of services, but plenty of other cleanup is required too. I'll start working on it. 00:54, 23 April 2016 (UTC)Pawg14 (talk)

Needs a source-based rewrite

Most of the article is from primary sources, including author bios written by the founders. The article claims third-party coverage - if it is notable, that should be sufficient - David Gerard (talk) 16:52, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's been a week, I'm clearing the questionable sources. Have tried to source all to the RSes presented, except e.g., statement of organisational purpose - David Gerard (talk) 12:02, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Added NYT article

This NYT article, which is by far the best source, wasn't used for some reason. I've added it + some details taken from it. 208.54.87.183 (talk) 05:01, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent - a solid RS on the cultish nature of the whole deal - David Gerard (talk) 23:01, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Poor rewrite

The rewrite from Dgerard is pretty bad, with the loss of a good amount of notable content and the introduction of some cruft and NPOV issues. I fixed a bit of it but it probably should be revised and done from scratch. Nobody was watching the talk page, not me at least, during finals week, so I don't see much of a real consensus. K.Bog 03:59, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It was extensively cited in detail. Your rewrite is a whitewash that pretends the RS citations don't exist - David Gerard (talk) 11:22, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Could you go into more detail? Which RS citations do I pretend not exist? And what does that have to do with you reverting the addition of new content and sources? Also, please note that there are many more factors in article quality besides being well-cited. The problem with your rewrite was that it was an unwieldy sloppily written amalgamation of negative material. For the point in the lead - you don't need to mention AGI twice within one short paragraph, that's bad writing since it's redundant, and it's something which has only been out for a couple weeks and has not been covered in reliable sources. Saying it's "focusing specifically on AI risk" instead of "promote rationality in order to reduce existential risk from artificial general intelligence" is also bad writing because it implies that it's no longer providing rationality workshops or rationality programs. Saying it "sells" workshops is poor writing which is not consistent with how such things are usually described on Wikipedia. Details about who attends the workshops and how long they are, the use of jargon and so on, and the 'interests' of members at CFAR aren't notable; you pretended that reliable sources didn't exist for the parts which you removed from Forbes and The Reasoner, the idea of the organization distributing copies of HPMOR is completely unsupported by the reference as far as I can tell, and the 'reliable source' showing that Yudkowsky is a consultant only states that he's provided on the website, something which is no longer the case. K.Bog 18:06, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Preserving Schubert cite

CEA has no official affiliation with CFAR, and according to LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefan-schubert-bb18ab115/) Schubert was not employed at CEA at the time that the article (http://www.academia.edu/9623753/The_Center_for_Applied_Rationality_practical_techniques_for_overcoming_biases) was published in The Reasoner. I don't really see the case for excluding it from the article. It could excerpt something other than the high survey satisfaction rate, however, if people think that is too positive. K.Bog 06:49, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sonoma County incident

The sources for this odd event are behind a paywall. Can anyone with access provide more details? It's really doesn't fit in with the bulk of the article content in such a drastic way that it almost resembles a hoax. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:53, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing a paywall on either of the sources, not sure why there is one for you. But looking over the two sources, everything there is backed up. Here are some quotes:

From https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Mystery-in-Sonoma-County-after-kidnap-arrests-of-14844155.php

Sonoma County authorities are investigating a bizarre protest against a Berkeley nonprofit focused on rational thought after four people dressed in black robes and Guy Fawkes masks were arrested for allegedly barricading off a wooded retreat where the nonprofit group was holding an event.

...

Police determined the suspects targeted a group that had planned a weekend retreat at Westminster Woods. Flyers found by deputies suggested they were protesting artificial intelligence and the Center for Applied Rationality, a Berkeley nonprofit holding its annual alumni reunion weekend at the retreat’s conference center starting Friday evening.

From https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2025/ziz-killings-map-timeline/

Borhanian and Leatham had previously been involved in a bizarre Sonoma County protest against the nonprofit Center for Applied Rationality with Gwen Danielson and Jack LaSota, known as “Ziz,” in 2019.

Some have called LaSota and her associates the “Zizians,” an offshoot of the modern rationalist movement that believes human decision-making can be improved by logic, evidence and an awareness of uncertainty and cognitive bias.

Gbear605 (talk) 19:07, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I can't access the San Francisco Chronicle archives. Do you have a subscription? Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:25, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No subscription, I’m just going to those links and they’re loading. Maybe it’s because I have an adblocker? Gbear605 (talk) 21:38, 21 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Date format

This is a U.S.-based organization, so I believe the article should use MDY dates per MOS:DATETIES. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 00:56, 4 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]