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Does Trinidad and Tobago located in South America

I'm finding this [[1]] that show Trinidad and Tobago Trinidad and Tobago are froming South America so does it's correct ? PAPI 12:45, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Yes, Trinidad and Tobago are in South-America. Just north of Venezuela. See https://www.google.com/maps/place/Trinidad+and+Tobago/ Polygnotus (talk) 13:43, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
@Namngocnghech and Polygnotus: Trinidad and Tobago is on the South American continental shelf. The main island Trinidad is only 11 km from mainland South America. You can draw a straight line between points in mainland Venezuela and cross Trinidad. In spite of all this, Trinidad and Tobago is usually grouped in North America for historical, cultural and practical reasons. It's considered part of the Caribbean and all of the Caribbean is normally assigned to North America. I'm not sure which grouping is best when the topic is Lists of islands but Category:Islands of Trinidad and Tobago is in Category:Islands of North America by country. Talk:Trinidad and Tobago/Archive 1#North or South America? and Talk:Trinidad and Tobago/Archive 3#T&T's continent have established that the country article should be in North America. The weirdest country grouping I have seen is The Economist Democracy Index placing Turkey in Western Europe. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:02, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
@PrimeHunter If its a "Democracy Index", Turkey should not be listed. In my experience ignoring tradition and using common sense instead is a great idea. See also Caribbean South America. Polygnotus (talk) 15:05, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Continental boundaries are arbitrary, the association of islands with said continents even more so. There isn't really a "correct". CMD (talk) 15:20, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Triggering a filter

not sure if its because I am relatively new to wikipedia. How can I publish this to the mainspace User:Sloggatt/sandbox Sloggatt (talk) 04:52, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Yeah, you hit a filter. You gotta add sources tho! Look at WP:CITE. Polygnotus (talk) 05:26, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
@Sloggatt: Please also look at the talkpage: Talk:Arthur Hastings Sloggatt. Do you know any books he is mentioned in? Polygnotus (talk) 05:38, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
HERE IS A NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE
https://www.nytimes.com/1975/09/12/archives/arthur-h-sloggatt-58-dies-mirror-editorial-cartoonist.html Sloggatt (talk) 05:48, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
I know, I added that one already, see near the bottom of Arthur Hastings Sloggatt. Do you have more sources? Polygnotus (talk) 05:53, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Now at Draft:Arthur Hastings Sloggatt. David notMD (talk) 12:07, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

What's with the image?!?! David notMD (talk) 12:19, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
@David notMD It is a "feature" of Template:Infobox comics creator. Polygnotus (talk) 12:22, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
There is an image of Sloggatt at Commons "Arthur H Sloggatt at his drafting table.png" but putting that in the info box generates this cartoon image. Why? Can the correct image be inserted outside the infobox? David notMD (talk) 12:24, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
@David notMD Below the image it says Wikipe-tan says: "You can't use fair-use images outside of articlespace!" Polygnotus (talk) 12:28, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Because this is still a draft??? Perhaps a note to the creating editor to set aside the image until the draft is accepted? David notMD (talk) 12:33, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
@David notMD If and when the article is moved to mainspace the correct image will appear. The reason is explained over at Wikipedia:Non-free content. Polygnotus (talk) 13:17, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
One of the editors moved the page to draftspace - here is the images uploaded so far https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListFiles/Sloggatt&ilshowall=1
here is another source for military service https://www.vlm.cem.va.gov/ARTHURHSLOGGATT/438EE62
I was explaining on another thread that the New York Daily Mirror ceased publication in the 1960's so there are no digital archives. However I called the Library of Congress and they confirmed the physical copies of the paper are archived in New York City. A lot of the sources from that time period are not digitized - how do you create a source that exists in physical form but not digitized? Sloggatt (talk) 17:10, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Updating MusiCares page

Hello there, the page for MusiCares is very out of date. I have tried to edit with updated information and cited appropriately, but my edits keep getting reverted, even when not using copyrighted content. Would any experts on this forum be willing to help update this page? Thanks. Fatekerber (talk) 18:45, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

It appears you are attempted to remove cited content and replace it with non-cited content. As one of Wikipedia's core standards is verifiability, you will need to cite a source for any content that you change. It is important we are able to verify what is being posted is true, and as such you should cite whenever you that sort of information.
Also, if you want to see which of your contributions were undone, you can simply go to your contributions. Those that were undone will have the word "reverted" in the tags beside the edit.
Hope this helps! PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 19:08, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

When does Wikipedia exempt sourceless articles?

My draft has been denied a lot of times for source issues (see draft:Randall Standridge) yet there are some articles (like Tactical crew) that are in the main space, but lack sources at all.


Where do we draw the line? BigBoiWikiWhale (talk) 19:00, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

@Jacob Lee 6939. Those articles are more or less grandfathered in as the requirements for having articles here becomes tighter. Such articles from the olden days remain until someone have the heart to either work on improving the article or request for deletion. If there is a line, it would be the applicable version of the policy of when the article was first written. – robertsky (talk) 19:09, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Your draft is about a living person and must comply with much stricter sourcing standards per WP:BLP. Ruslik_Zero 19:13, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
This is why each article or draft is judged on its own merits and not based on the presence of other articles that themselves may be inappropriate, but not yet addressed. As robertsky has alluded to, we're only as good as the people who choose to help us and have the time to take action. See other stuff exists. 331dot (talk) 19:13, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Hello @Jacob Lee 6939! The history of Wikipedia's policy on sourcing has varied significantly. The page you bring up as an example, Tactical crew, was first created in 2004. Back then, Wikipedia's standards on citations were not as strict as they are now. This is especially true for biographies of living people, which your article is. You should have a source for pretty much every claim in your article, other then the fact that the sky is blue. Hope this helps! PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 19:13, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Tense on fictional character biography

Hello. I was looking at the page for Mr. Miyagi, and the character is deceased in-universe. Should the page be in past tense per MOS:BLPTENSE? Couldn't find anything on this for deceased fictional characters. loserhead (talk) 19:22, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Loserhead. We write about fictional characters in the present tense, even those who die during the work of fiction. For examples, see the articles about Shakespeare's characters Romeo and Juliet, and Ophelia and Polonius and many more. Cullen328 (talk) 19:40, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Thank you, that clears it up. loserhead (talk) 19:41, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Adding a steals_leader and blocks_leader on the Infobox basketball league season

DONE
User could change himself, if wanted to discuss, please do it at the templates talk page. Valorrr (lets chat) 23:50, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am making a this article Draft:2024–25 in European women's basketball and I would like to introduce a steals_leader and blocks_leader parameter for the Template:Infobox basketball league season as I think that is useful information. Can anyone help me please? ILoveSport2006 (talk) 16:50, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Hey! If you can hit the edit button, you may be able to hit "Submit edit request" or something similar to that, if you cannot, please add {{reply to|Valorrr}} to your message and I'll be happy to help. Valorrr (lets chat) 19:33, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
Do you mean click edit template data? ILoveSport2006 (talk) 10:26, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Edit source I mean. Valorrr (lets chat) 13:14, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
I have already tried to add the parameters in question but something didn't work and I really gave no idea why. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 14:04, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Did it appear to say "submit edit request" on it? Valorrr (lets chat) 22:27, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
No, it didn't ILoveSport2006 (talk) 22:38, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
What did it show then? (on Template:Infobox basketball league season) Valorrr (lets chat) 22:43, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Nothing notable. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 22:45, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
When you hit edit source did anything appear about sending an edit request? Valorrr (lets chat) 22:46, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Ah! I see why, you are already auto-confirmed, (you're extended confirmed), You may edit the template yourself if wanted! Valorrr (lets chat) 22:47, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Redirects to redirects

Is it okay for this kind of redirect flow? It seems that this is because of the editor misnomering the article.

Kureme, Iraq --> Draft:Kureme, Iraq --> Wikipedia:Kureme, Iraq --> Wikipedia:Kureme, Kurdistan --> Draft:Kureme, Kurdistan

I CSD'ed Kureme, Iraq a few minutes ago per R6 and is deleted now. But this overall redirect flow confuses me and makes me wonder if it is okay to keep them or delete some of the redirects, because for some reason, the redirect from the Draft: namespace to Wikipedia: namespace and vice-versa seems to be an R2 for me (though R2 specifically said "except the Wikipedia: namespace"). But I'm asking here just to be sure and make sense of it. AstrooKai (Talk) 06:48, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Chains of redirect are in themselves fairly harmless. But the final redirect in this chain, from mainspace to a draft, is not permitted. Maproom (talk) 07:18, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
@AstrooKai Please see Wikipedia:Double redirects. Shantavira|feed me 07:31, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Undeletion requests and re-submitted copyrights release but no response from Wikimedia Commons

I have been trying to merge images and copyright releases for three images for the past three months. The copyright owner submitted the release form again on April 21, with the ticket number Ticket:2025042110004161 and I requested the undeletion of the images relating to the releases:

I am unsure as to why things are stuck and why I'm not getting any replies from Permissions (permissions-commons@wikimedia.org)

The three images are instrumental in illustrating an article.

I would greatly appreciate the kind help from anyone who understands the intricacies of Wikimedia Commons. Louisetarp (talk) 20:10, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

The background to one of these: c:Commons:Undeletion_requests/Archive/2025-03#File:Derek-Pratt-Oval-Pocket-Watch.jpg. (And, for the curious, these would presumably be for Draft:Derek Pratt (watchmaker).) It's a Commons matter, so should be taken up there, where your question is far more likely to be read by somebody who (unlike me) understands those intricacies. -- Hoary (talk) 22:27, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
Thank you, @Hoary – do you know of there is a Commons Teahouse? – And yes, those images are for the Draft Derek Pratt (watchmaker) article :) Louisetarp (talk) 01:55, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
@Louisetarp There is a Village pump which has a similar function. But they don't serve tea and scones. Polygnotus (talk) 04:39, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
c:Commons:Help desk would be a closer analogue to the Teahouse; but c:Commons:VRTN is specific to VRT matters. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:24, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Problem is, the Commons Helpdesk also has no scones and their tea is of inferior quality. Polygnotus (talk) 07:33, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
This has finally been resolved !! woot woot !! Louisetarp (talk) 08:45, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
@Louisetarp: "why I'm not getting any replies" Because the team who manage that mailbox are all volunteers, and the volume of requests is high. Please be more patient. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:24, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
point taken, Andy. What's puzzling to me is the 7 day window in which the copyrights release is tied to the upload of images. In this case, the undeletion request of images. So wouldn't those 7 days apply in both directions? I wrote the permissions email within those 7 days, and again after, but my emails are not being replied to. In the past, I've received answers and help. This one feels jinxed, and I cannot comprehend what's different/wrong this time. Louisetarp (talk) 12:21, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
@Louisetarp Your draft has recently been declined but the reviewer kindly provided detailed reasons why. I think it will be rapidly accepted after you have fixed the issues with the citations they mentioned and you can re-submit and WP:PING that reviewer to take another look once you have done so. There is no hurry for the images, as they are irrelevant to acceptance at AfC. There is an essay WP:There is no deadline, although not everyone agrees with that. Mike Turnbull (talk) 13:29, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Hi Mike, how have you been? Yes, it's exciting that the article is now very close!
The mystery with the images is that we've tried to muddle through the complicated system several times now. The copyright owner is super willing and proud to have the images up on Wikipedia, but requires a lot of handholding. So not hearing back from Permissions as to what the reasons are for the holdup is quite frustrating. It feels like those 7 days of when the newly submitted release is active should be honored by Wikimedia Commons, too.
I'm super grateful to you, and to all the wonderful Wikipedians for the help and enthusiasm! Louisetarp (talk) 14:30, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

Moving images around once they've been placed in the article

Hello, I just added three images to an article, but am not happy with the placement within the article. How can I moved them? There doesn't seem to be a simple way to do so, I only see the options of moving to the left, center or middle. I would like to move them within paragraphs for better flow. (this is for Derek Pratt (watchmaker)#Independent watchmaking) Thanks! Louisetarp (talk) 08:48, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Personally, I think it's got too many images and should have a few removed. - X201 (talk) 10:03, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
never mind, I figured it out, this article can be removed (but I don't know how haha) Louisetarp (talk) 10:49, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
We don't delete Teahouse threads in case they are of use to other readers, we just archive them. Help:Pictures is the general help page for image placement but there are so many browsers and screen sizes in use to view Wikipedia articles that tweaking articles to work well on an individual device can ruin the display for others.
Resolved
Mike Turnbull (talk) 10:54, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Blockquote with multiple paragraphs

In the article [[2]], the section Background contains blockquotes, in which all paragraph breaks have been eliminated, and the text has become difficult to parse.

How can I make the paragraphs appear as in the wikitext. Comfr (talk) 05:09, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

In the wikisource of Sherman Antitrust Act I see a reference starting
<ref>Footnote 11 appears here: "''See'' the Bibliography on Trusts (1913)
followed by a lot more content including quotations, blank lines (probably intended as paragraph breaks) and direct external links. I don't know what's gone wrong, but that is not sensible content for <ref>...</ref> tags. Maproom (talk) 07:13, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes, you are correct. The references are not part of the quote. I will try to fix it. Thanks.Comfr (talk) 15:27, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Protection of featured article summary

I've noticed that the featured article section on the main page is actually a separate page that isn't protected.

I haven't tried editing it because I don't want to break anything but the UI tells me that I can edit today's featured article section.

Am I missing something or is this a design flaw? Laura240406 (talk) 15:20, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

You can hit edit, but it says when you attempt to edit;
"This page is transcluded in multiple cascade-protected pages, so only administrators can edit it." Valorrr (lets chat) 16:12, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
ah okay makes sense thanks Laura240406 (talk) 16:22, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
Yep! Most likely just not tagged. Valorrr (lets chat) 16:43, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Question about political BLP

Earlier today, Mike Waltz was announced as an intended nominee for US ambassador to the UN. Several editors have modified his infobox to include to this position, though he has not been confirmed to the post. Is this acceptable? I was of the believe that officeholder infoboxes should only feature offices that the subject actually held (or was elected to but has/did not yet assumed). Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 21:19, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

I would consider it, not notable, I have found a source about this, if you wish to read up on it, its Wikipedia:TDS, if you have any questions please reach out to me. Valorrr (lets chat) 22:02, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
@Valorrr: Notability is not the issue here. I am very confused by your comment. ~ Pbritti (talk) 22:14, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
The title I refer to "Not every single thing Donald Trump does deserves an article". Valorrr (lets chat) 22:15, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
And the check what I left on your talk-page. Valorrr (lets chat) 22:15, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
Seems to be contravening WP:CRYSTAL. Bazza 7 (talk) 22:16, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
@Valorrr: there is no issue of notability here. Nobody is talking about creating an article—this about whether an infobox should reflect a status they do not yet possess. @Bazza 7:, thanks for the reply. I think you're right that CRYSTAL is most applicable. ~ Pbritti (talk) 22:18, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
I understand, both are applicable, the source is used from truth-social, making it about Trump, and thats why I applied WP:TDS. Valorrr (lets chat) 22:20, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Dealing with vandalism

On the Wikipedia page for Terrance Howard, I have reverted a few edits that redact criticism of the living persons without providing a source, which I believe not to be in good faith as the account has a small history only of reverted edits. I don't think I am in the wrong for these rollbacks, but I am getting notes left by said editor on my talk page regarding edit warring (after only a couple rollbacks of undescribed changes) and "being unkind to fellow Wikipedians", which while I do not agree with them, I am not sure if I am in the right to delete them. I feel like I would be fine given the editor's history but want to check. How do I proceed? CollinDChase (talk) 01:28, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Given the reply given on his talk page, I feel comfortable removing the note, but would still like some insight on how to deal with this. CollinDChase (talk) 01:33, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
Hello, CollinDChase, and welcome! The account has been blocked. For dealing with vandals, you can leave a note on the Administrators' vandalism intervention board – Twinkle can help with this. As for your talk page, you are not required to keep most stuff on your talk page in general and I would have no qualms about removing those particular edits on your talkpage. Hope this helps! Happy editing, Perfect4th (talk) 03:13, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Referencing from "unknown" source

Kind regards. I wanted to ask if there was a precedent for citing from a reference whose origin is not known precisely. An example would be having a physical copy or picture from the page of a book, but not knowing or remembering its name, author or publisher. I wanted to know how this was handled with the traditional <ref><ref/> template, and how known information can be added (such as the library where it was retrieved from), assuming it meets the reliability threshold. NoonIcarus (talk) 22:19, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Wikipedia is massively contaminated with junk, and no doubt there are thousands of precedents, NoonIcarus; but their number don't justify it. However formatted, <ref>Page 35 of a book, almost certainly in English, and published in the late 20th century but no later than 1993.</ref>, for example, wouldn't show the reader where to find the page. Therefore it would be unsuitable, however ingeniously one might use a Cite template for the purpose. -- Hoary (talk) 22:34, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
Hello, NoonIcarus. Precisely Googling a distinctive sentence from such a source may identify the source, if you are lucky. Cullen328 (talk) 01:46, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Or for pictures a reverse image search. Polygnotus (talk) 06:30, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Thank you. The specific example that I'm thinking about is a list of films along with their respective budgets. The downside is that this makes it harder to identify the source compared to a sentence, but on the bright side it's also probably easier finding the information online or in other references. Still, I leave the question open for bibliographical material that may not be as easily digitlized. --NoonIcarus (talk) 14:08, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
Many thanks for your insight. I totally agree that just because a mistake is commonplace or a lot of people makes it doesn't make it right. I guess another way to put the question is how much "complementary" information from the source is enough to turn the lack of main info appropriate, if any. Just some food for thought. --NoonIcarus (talk) 14:05, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
I agree with Hoary that verifiability is key. If the reader cannot trace the information to a reliable source, then the citation loses its value in an encyclopedia. At the same time, I think your question—how much complementary information is enough when the core citation info is missing—is worth exploring further, especially for physical or rare materials that aren't easily digitized.
One thing I’m considering is whether it's possible to temporarily include such information on the article’s talk page while trying to track down the full reference. Maybe adding a tag like [citation needed] or [better source needed] could also alert others to help identify the source. Jeong seolah (talk) 05:56, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Making a new page

Hey, I tried to make the page "Memelord" but it did not let me do so. Is there any reason why this page cannot be made? It has the RSes to justify a spot on here I would think. Thanks! Gjb0zWxOb (talk) Gjb0zWxOb (talk) 15:43, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

That article has been protected from creation due to extensive vandalism. If you think you can write an acceptable article about this topic, please submit a draft via the article wizard. 331dot (talk) 15:59, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
Gjb0zWxOb, please be aware that Wikipedia is not a dictionary and that Wiktionary already has an entry for "Memelord". Cullen328 (talk) 00:20, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
Hi there! The reason you’re unable to create the Memelord article is because the page has been protected from creation due to repeated past vandalism or non-notable attempts. That means new pages with that title can’t be created directly.
However, if you believe the topic meets Wikipedia’s notability guidelines and you have reliable sources (RS) to support it, you can still write a draft version using the Article Wizard. Once written, it can be reviewed by editors before being moved to the mainspace.
Also, note that Wikipedia is not a dictionary—if you’re focusing on the definition or slang usage of memelord, it may be more appropriate for Wiktionary, where an entry already exists.
Hope that helps and good luck with your draft! LookatmiWiki (talk) 06:10, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Is it considered acceptable to use machine-translated text from other wikis

Hello hello! I'm currently working on the (English language) Wikipedia page for the Länsimetro, however I've noticed that the Finnish Wikipedia pages fi:Länsimetro and fi:Länsimetron_historia are seemingly pretty well done and contain better-presented and generally better information. I do not speak Finnish, nor pretend to, however I still believe it would be beneficial to cross-pollinate between the two articles. Would it be acceptable for me to use machine-translated text from the two Finnish articles in order to update the English article, so long as I flag it on the talk page, or is this a task better left for fluent speakers of Finnish? Thanks! BerkutSimp (talk) 14:03, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

Generally you can use machine translation to turn the Finnish text into English, but you should generally copyedit to ensure it sounds like normal prose and isn't a mess of garbled sentences. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 14:04, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
I see, thanks a lot! BerkutSimp (talk) 14:44, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
Hello, @BerkutSimp. There are two other caveats: the first is to make sure that your translated text is well sourced and properly cited. If you translate text that is not sourced up to the level required in English Wikipedia (see WP:42) then what you are doing is effectively writing the article backwards. The second is to give correct attribution, which is a legal requirement of the licence Wikipedia uses. See WP:Translate us. ColinFine (talk) 14:55, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
If you are not able to read Finnish yourself, you should not be performing translations from Finnish. See the page for the content translation tool for descriptions of the past pitfalls of using machine translation; ultimately, if the best we can do is a blind machine translation, readers can do that themselves. I'm not personally familiar with Finnish either or the general quality of machine translation for Finnish to English, but it is a language far enough removed from English that I would be very doubtful of the quality of machine-generated translations, as performance will likely be more similar to English--Chinese or English--Hebrew (read: bad) than English--Spanish (a relatively consonant pair of languages that are also commonly translated, creating a large body of training data to build off of for the translation algorithms) signed, Rosguill talk 14:59, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
Thus far I've simply resigned myself to updating the page with a public transit infobox, because I'd imagine simple figures and one-word entries are far less prone to mistranslation. However, I would rather defer to you if you feel as though even that is too error-prone to bear BerkutSimp (talk) 15:05, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
I frankly don't think this is too much of a problem - I use machine translation as a basis to write Great Han Sichuan Military Government and REM-KL (from Chinese and Russian respectively) with few issues. It definitely would help if you cross-reference with other things outside Wikipedia to ensure what you're saying is accurate. As long as you have the general idea of what the original text is saying, you should be fine. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 15:09, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
To be frank, BerkutSimp, the advice that you are getting from PhoenixCaelestis is false. Any editor translating Wikipedia content from another language to English (or vice versa) is expected to have working competence in both languages, or to collaborate with another human editor who speaks the other language well. Machine translation can and regularly does make serious errors in meaning, especially when translating content that discusses complex concepts or includes idioms, slang and colloqualisms. So, I strongly encourage both of you to refrain from irresponsible use of machine translation. I am pinging Mathglot to this conversation, a highly experienced editor who is interested in this problem on Wikipedia. I am in general agreement with what Rosguill wrote above. Cullen328 (talk) 16:11, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
BerkutSimp, in a word, no, it is not acceptable. You should leave it for speakers of Finnish. Although machine translation is far better than it once was, it continues to make serious errors on occasion. If you do not know the language, there is no way to know when that occurs, and therefore no way to ensure verifiability, which is a core content policy of Wikipedia. As several editors have already mentioned, competence in the foreign language and in English is a prerequisite to using translated content at Wikipedia.
In addition, the original article was written by Finnish Wikipedia volunteers, not domain experts, and is therefore not a reliable source. The citations in their article hopefully are reliable and may or may not support the Finnish content, but how would you know if you don't speak the language? Even if the translation of the article is faithful to the Finnish original, it's important to be able to understand the foreign citations in order to maintain verifiability. If you machine-translate unverifiable content and add it here, you are in violation of our verifiability policy. If you need additional help regarding translation, feel free to contact me on my Talk page. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 00:56, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
I see, tysm for letting me know ^_^ I really appreciate it. I don't think any of the information in the infobox I created is inaccurate, at least according to the sources I looked at, however I see how they might not hold up under scrutiny. I leave the question of whether it stays up to more experienced Wikipedians than I, however, though I'd like to say that said Wikipedians should feel free to do so if they feel it is best. BerkutSimp (talk) 04:30, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
@BerkutSimp If you ever do find that a foreigh-language Wikipedia article looks good, and, more ipmortantly, has good sourcing, please feel free to leave a note on the talk page mentioning that! Hopefully somebody competent in the language will see it. Or, if you just want to cite a fact or two, you can maybe ask for help from somebody in Category:Wikipedians by language. There's no guarantee, but many people are okay with translating a sentence or two. I know I've met people on the Wikimedia Discord who've translated things for me, or translated entire documents for other editors... but that's a bit more unusual! GreenLipstickLesbian💌🦋 04:37, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
As a native Finnish speaker, I occasionally test Google Translate (and some other tools) between Finnish and English, just to see how they're coming along, especially because Finnish has a notoriously difficult grammar. While these tools are certainly improving, they're still far from perfect. I'd say that if you translate four sentences from Finnish to English, Google gets three of them pretty spot-on, but the fourth one is either almost right but with a subtle mistake such as translating an idiom literally or getting two homographs mixed up, or in some cases is complete gobbledegook. Gobbledegook is easy for anyone to spot, but if you don't know Finnish you're very unlikely to catch the subtle mistake because it looks superficially okay. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 09:23, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Decline my draft

Dear Concern, I am a new editor. I submitted Draft: Rotimi Solomon Ajanaku but it was declined for being too autobiographical and lacking notability. Could someone please review or give guidance on improving it to meet Wikipedia’s standards?

Thank You R.ajanaku7 (talk) 13:37, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Partly asked and answered at User talk:HickoryOughtShirt?4. It wasn't declined for being too autobiographical per se, but because there is no proper secondary sourcing. "Too autobiographical" is probably a result of the article not being neutral at all, but "neutral" is a thing that the dictionary can explain to you. Drmies (talk) 13:39, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
Some of what are intended to be references at Draft:Rotimi Solomon Ajanaku are not properly formatted, instead appearing as hyperlinks. David notMD (talk) 13:45, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

How do I start writing a article?

Hello, I recently did a edit for the Qualcomm page adding a new product line, Dragonwing, the IoT, Robotics, and Etc. but it linked to a page called list of x-men enemies, instead of making a red link, or linking to a dragonwing page (which is something that doesn't exist yet). How would I go about writing a article? im really confused. LeoPysmak (talk) 13:45, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

LeoPysmak, if you want there to be an article about the Qualcomm product "Dragonwing", you create a draft about it (and don't link to the draft). Once you think it's ready, you submit it for approval. If it gets accepted, the reviewer will sort out the existing redirect for you. Maproom (talk) 14:07, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Translating a new article

Hi everyone, I just finished translating an article, which I chanced upon while browsing through the Ukrainian Cultural Diplomacy Month page. It can be found on Ukrainian/Crimean Tatar Wikipedia. It's on my userpage right now, and I'm not quite sure how a translated article is added and linked to all the other languages of Wikipedia. NasiLemakAddict (talk) 05:31, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

@NasiLemakAddict
1. upload the translated article
Create a new article with your translation in the appropriate language Wikipedia (e.g., Ukrainian, Crimean Tatar). When saving the article, it is recommended to leave the source of the translation in the edit summary (e.g., “This article is a translation of a Korean Wikipedia article. Original: en:Article name”).
2. Linking between languages (interwiki links)
Once articles are created, you can link them together by adding interlanguage links. In recent years, most interlanguage links have been managed through **Wikidata**, where they can be found at By adding a Sitelink to the article in Wikidata, you can create an interlanguage link, allowing each language Wikipedia to link to each other's article
You can also find more information in Help:Interlanguage links and Wikipedia:Translate us. Kim jong min (hanyang) (talk) 06:23, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
NasiLemakAddict, you have created this at User:NasiLemakAddict/Coffee culture of Crimean Tatars. Thank you for making it clear in the summary for your first edit that this is a translation of a uk:Wikipedia page. Before you proceed further, a question. Your user page shows your ability in six languages, but Ukrainian isn't among them. How proficient are you at reading Ukrainian? -- Hoary (talk) 07:27, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
Not really, I just translate based on Google Chrome's translation. So maybe it doesn't fit some criteria? Maybe someone proficient in Ukrainian can verify and improve. Either way it's an interesting article and I would like to see it available on English. NasiLemakAddict (talk) 08:17, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
NasiLemakAddict, I'll agree that the result is interesting. But we should be able to stand behind the quality of what we write/add -- or at least the fidelity of what we write/add to the reliable sources that this references. We can't do that if we don't understand what we are getting Google Translate to digest. Please look in the thread titled "Is it considered acceptable to use machine-translated text from other wikis", above: it has excellent comments from (in what seems to be chronological order) Rosguill, Cullen328, and Mathglot, comments that apply to machine translations from either Finnish or Ukrainian. -- Hoary (talk) 08:40, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
OK, I'll look into it NasiLemakAddict (talk) 14:13, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Is my draft good so far?

I don’t know whether my draft: Draft:Shelby (dog) meets the criteria for wikinotabilty even though it isn’t finished yet. I just wanna make sure. Henihhi28 (talk) 00:19, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

The reference to wbrucecameron.com appears to be a blog, which wouldn't do much for notability, but your other two references look good actually. This one might also be of use to you. This seems like it has a good chance at being notable, seeing as the movie has an article. See List of individual dogs and you might be able to get an idea of how many references you need from that. MediaKyle (talk) 00:23, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
I removed the blog, and thanks Henihhi28 (talk) 00:41, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
I just submitted it - Wish me luck! Henihhi28 (talk) 00:53, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Sorry, maybe my answer was a little misleading - when I said your other two references look good, I meant they're good to use as references, but you're going to need more than just those two articles to assert notability. I'd keep looking and see what else you can add. MediaKyle (talk) 00:54, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Ok, I will because the article does seem very stubby. Henihhi28 (talk) 00:56, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
So far I managed to find more source backing it up, hopefully it makes the cut even though its few. Henihhi28 (talk) 01:13, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
What evidence supports identifying Shelby as a pit bull? David notMD (talk) 13:05, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
I fixed that, the sources say she’s a Rottweiler-German Shepherd mix Henihhi28 (talk) 17:16, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

Hide Revision

Should this revision be hidden [3] Cwater1 (talk) 02:19, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

I don't think so. It's not overtly offensive, just bad faith vandalism. Shovel Shenanigans (talk) 03:12, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Okay [thumbs up] Cwater1 (talk) 14:53, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

List of Pakistani films of 2025

Hello... I found some errors in the films list related article List of Pakistani films of 2025. There are columns, colors and Manual of Style disarranged and difficult to understand. I have made some fixes, which i know and i can do. I need further improvements in the list and columns as per other related lists. Thank you Misopatam (talk | contribs) 08:01, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello Misopatam, lists that are in niche topics such as Pakistani films of 2025 tend to be unorganized and messy. This is true of most lists unless they have a user who fixes them when new information comes out or vandalism occurs. An example for List of World Heritage Sites would be the user Tone. Since there are various ways to arrange pages, you should look at other List of (Demonym) Films of (year) and follow that consensus or change it by discussing it. This can be done either on Wikiprojecet:Lists or the talk page, I am not sure as I have never done it before. The best place to look are featured list in this scope because other less developed lists tend to be less well-formatted. You can also place {FormattingError|error message}} (with two curly brackets at the beginning and end) on the page and hope someone comes by and fixes it. Easternsahara (talk) 12:56, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Can you please do it yourself. You can see List of Pakistani films of 2024 and made arrangements by looking from this article lists Misopatam (talk | contribs) 13:12, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Ok. Easternsahara (talk) 13:16, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Thank you. Misopatam (talk | contribs) 13:21, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Thank you but now i have fixed it myself and Resorted the better version because it was disruptive by IP. Misopatam (talk | contribs) 19:01, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

How would I get a source translated?

I am working on an article, Corruption in Greenland, and I think I have found a good source [4] But it's in Danish/Greenlandic. How would I go about getting it translated? I don't want to use a machine translator as they are inaccurate. Thank you, loserhead (talk) 17:13, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

@Loserhead: You could ask for help or advice on WT:WikiProject Denmark. You should probably use machine translation to get an overview, then ask for confirmation of specific phrases, rather than asking volunteers to translate the whole thing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:36, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
I usually use a machine translator, supplemented with an online dictionary, for sources in other languages. Cremastra talk 19:51, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Why was my draft denied?

(Draft: Draft:A Dog's Courage) It got denied because it had no reliable sources, but I don’t see how they aren’t reliable? Henihhi28 (talk) 20:29, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

@Henihhi28 None of your sources are independent of Cameron. A couple just show that the book exists and one is to Cameron's own website. For a book to meet wikinotability, or for its author to do so, we need evidence that it has been read and reviewed, for example in reliable newspapers. Note how A Dog's Way Home (novel) has such sources. Mike Turnbull (talk) 20:35, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

How to change tie format

Hi, on the article that I am creating, (The article is Draft:2024–25 in European women's basketball) some of the leagues have a third place tie, but the tie has a different format (for example, the final could be a best of three while the third place play is a home and away aggregate tie). Bulgaria's league is the example, where the final is a best of five but the third place game is a home and away aggregate tie. How do I change it so it resembles the differing formats? ILoveSport2006 (talk) 18:04, 1 May 2025 (UTC)

The best way to my knowledge would be editing the template directly. Valorrr (lets chat) 22:23, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
Sorry, what do you mean by that? ILoveSport2006 (talk) 17:03, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
It's okay, I mean by editing the template to include that option manually. Valorrr (lets chat) 17:14, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
The problem is that I really know very little about coding ILoveSport2006 (talk) 17:36, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
You can most likely make an edit request for the page and someone can help you with it! :) Valorrr (lets chat) 17:46, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
I did that. Hopefully that helps ILoveSport2006 (talk) 20:53, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
Alright, hope that works! Valorrr (lets chat) 23:18, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Pinging users who submitted edit requests

When I fulfill an edit request, should I ping the user who submitted the request when I say  Done? Thanks. 🏳️‍🌈JohnLaurens333 (need something?) 21:38, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

In my opinion, this may be different for others, but I usually don't, unless the editor specifically asks. Valorrr (lets chat) 23:17, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
(edit conflict) It wouldn't hurt, but it's probably not necessary, since the editor who made the request is probably watching the page or at least will check back on their own. Deor (talk) 23:19, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
Yeah, it also depends on if they're using a script, for example I use Wikipedia:Convenient Discussions, which auto subscribes me to the topic if I reply or create it, really depends on the user. Valorrr (lets chat) 23:22, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
Thanks! 🏳️‍🌈JohnLaurens333 (need something?) 23:32, 2 May 2025 (UTC)

Question about article introduction

Hi there, I have a question about Wikipedia guidelines concerning article introductions. My understanding of this from a few years ago was that the introduction is intended to summarize key points from the body of the article. Is that still correct?

I ask because I work at the Wyss Foundation, and it's not clear why half of the introductory section for that article is now about a separate organization (the Berger Action Fund). The claims about Berger are largely correct (though there are some important factual omissions from the cited sources), but again Berger is not Wyss, and this information is never referenced again in the body of the article, so I'm not sure why it's in the introduction.

I've made requests about Wyss Foundation content before using the article Talk page, but I want to make sure I understand Wikipedia guidelines correctly before I engage there again. Any feedback would be appreciated. ZH for Wyss Foundation (talk) 16:48, 29 April 2025 (UTC)

Hello @ZH for Wyss Foundation. Yes, the lead of an article is a summary of the body. MOS:LEAD should have everything you need to know regarding this. Good luck. Tarlby (t) (c) 17:57, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
Hello, ZH for Wyss Foundation. You are correct that the lead section should summarize the content of the body, and you can learn more at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section. Given that these two groups are funded by the same man, and share offices and staff, and are sometimes discussed together in reliable sources such as the New York Times, it is not unreasonable to describe them both in the same article. More content about the Berger Action Fund could be added to the body of the article. Cullen328 (talk) 17:59, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
Thank you for the information. I'm still a bit confused, though. There is currently no mention of Berger in the body of the article. Why, then, is Berger covered at length in the introduction? ZH for Wyss Foundation (talk) 19:14, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
Because someone some time ago added it without thinking of the lead being a summary. Tarlby (t) (c) 19:42, 29 April 2025 (UTC)
Thank you for the explanation. It's been several years since I made a Talk page request, and I don't want to make a misstep. Would it be reasonable to ask if the introductory paragraph in question could be moved into the body of the article? And then maybe a sentence or two summary could still be included in the intro? ZH for Wyss Foundation (talk) 02:24, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
ZH for Wyss Foundation, more than reasonable; in fact, that is exactly what should have been done at that article in the first place. Feel free to add your edit request to the talk page. Be sure to be very specific so anyone reading your requeset will understand exactly what is to be moved, and ideally, where in the body. If you have suggested wording for the summary to be added to the lead, please add that, too. Note that the lead is supposed to summarize only the most important points of the article, so if you judge the fund to be a more minor point, the fund would not have to be mentioned in the lead at all; that is more of a judgment call on how important it is to the whole topic. Mathglot (talk) 15:05, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
Thank you for the advice. Would it be okay if I tagged you in the request? ZH for Wyss Foundation (talk) 17:52, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
ZH for Wyss Foundation, yes. Mathglot (talk) 04:34, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

Is there a list of all icon that wikipedia uses for all its pages and pages [not images, ICONS like the one on your computer] that i can publicly view and download?

i want to know that if there is one, i will get it for my PC Googolpie (talk) 15:23, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

commons:OOUI maybe ? Sohom (talk) 15:42, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Do you mean logos, like those in c:Category:Wikipedia logos (2010)? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:37, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

Tom Venning

Please could I have some help with the article Tom Venning. What is the consensus on creating other pages for newly elected legislators? Moondragon21 (talk) 14:21, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

What help do you need? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:02, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
"Elected legislator" at a national or first-subnational level: notable, no argument. That said, I would wait until all the votes have been counted. DS (talk) 19:35, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

Request for Drafts Review and Approval

OP has indicated that they are "no longer editing". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:06, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello,

Could someone please review and approve the following drafts?

Thanks in advance! Wieditor25 (talk) 15:16, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

I reviewed them for you, (declined) you thought the reviews "unfair' and blanked them, and have not disclosed your conflict of interest. Theroadislong (talk) 16:04, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
I clearly explained during the discussion that this is 100% not a paid article or a promotional piece, and that it didn't receive a fair review. It could add value to Wikipedia, if a fair reviewer take a time to review it. An a draft declined in one one second review, wow! We all have something better to do...
~~ Wieditor25 (talk) 16:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Whether or not it is a "paid article or a promotional piece", if you have a CoI you are still required to declare it. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:39, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
I did but since the reviewer had a different interpretation- just reviewed the article on ONE second, then I chose to revert. Wieditor25 (talk) 17:45, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
And where did you do that? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:58, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
I am not a reviewer, but it is obvious to me that Draft:Diriba Eticha Tujuba is not currently acceptable as a Wikipedia article, because as far as I can see it does not have one single source that meets the triple requirement of being reliable, independent, and containing significant coverage of the subject (see WP:42).
Most of the sources are from institutions connected with Tujuba, and so are not independent of him, and the ones about the MoU with AHRI are not about him, and in any case (since they are substantially the same) are clearly based on a press release, and so are fail the test of independence as well as the test of significant coverage.
A Wikipedia article should be a neutral summary of what people wholly unconnected with the subject have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable publications, and very little else. Until you can find and cite several (at least three) different sources which meet the requirements in WP:42, you will not have established notability, and your draft will not be accepted.
Questioning the integrity of the reviewer is not likely to strike other reviewers favourably, and removing your COI declaration because you don't like the review looks like petty spite. ColinFine (talk) 17:58, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
@Theroadislong: They didn't just blank the review comments; they blanked the page. Isn't that {{Db-blanked}}? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:43, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes, that's correct but I felt it prudent to leave it for another editor to decide, since my input is not appreciated. Theroadislong (talk) 17:48, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

Request for Fair Review of Deletion Actions

A wiki user is opposing all my drafts/articles. I request a fair review of deletion actions affecting:

These are accredited public universities in Ethiopia, similar to others already listed. The deletion rationale seems inconsistent with WP:GNG and WP:NACADEMIC. Wieditor25 (talk) 17:59, 3 May 2025 (UTC)

Being accredited confers zero notability and the relevant criteria is WP:NORG. Theroadislong (talk) 18:02, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
If these articles are being considered non-notable, should we also review the other Ethiopian university articles and consider deletion? All follow the same format and notability level. Wieditor25 (talk) 18:08, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes, that's a definite possibility. That other articles exist does not mean that they were ever approved by anyone, or even if they were, that they may not meet current standards. Schools and universities are particularly problematic because the notability guidelines have changed over the years; it used to be that mere existence was sufficient, but that is no longer the case. They are now treated like any other organization. 331dot (talk) 18:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Yes we should, feel free to list them. Theroadislong (talk) 18:11, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
@Wieditor25: Do it yourself, if you're not just taking the piss and throwing a rhetorical grenade to deflect. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads critiques 18:12, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
@Wieditor25: WP:NACADEMIC applies to people, not schools (see WP:SCHOOLOUTCOMES). And accusing Theroadislong (talk · contribs) of being unfair here while you yourself are attempting to canvass is pretty rich. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v threads critiques 18:04, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
I still question the reviewer's fairness toward articles from certain regions, but it's not worth spending time.GL! Wieditor25 (talk) 19:29, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Then it's time you read, or re-read, WP:AGF. If you continue on your current path of making unsubstantiated allegations against other editors, you will end up with your account blocked from editing. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:34, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Sounds kinda like a threat, though, against free speech. Wieditor25 (talk) 19:38, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Funny thing is, you don't have free speech here. You are required to abide by our community norms, which include not making such disparaging comments. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:48, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Wieditor25 Please also see other stuff exists. 331dot (talk) 18:05, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Please don't start a new section to continue the same request (I've now merged them here). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:07, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
Additionally, I have reviewed the other editor's actions, and they seem very fair. HTH. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:09, 3 May 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

What Should I Do If an Editor (Chetsford) Is Lying and Another Editor (Bonadea) Is Deferring to Them?

Advice has kindly been given. This is not the place to continue a dispute. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:37, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Howdy,

Recently an AfD nomination for an article on Christopher Mellon was successful. This nomination was made by @Chetsford.

I redrafted the article, and it was rejected by @BuySomeApples. Nevertheless, I solicited BuySomeApples' help, and we put in a bunch of work to vet suitable sources to satisfy Wikipedia:SIGCOV. Throughout this process, Chetsford was commenting on our drafting and sources (and in some cases actively lying about whether sources had been used in the previously deleted version). Based on a reference in my re-drafting efforts, Chetsford then put in an AfD nomination for The Sol Foundation. I suggested that this article should be kept in the AfD discussion, and I believe this attracted the attention of @Very Polite Person.

Very Polite Person then asked if he could help with the drafting of the Mellon article, and I agreed. They redrafted and submitted the article in a day.

Chetsford then commented on the draft, suggesting that it should be rejected on the basis of "SIGCOV problems." He listed out 9 sources that he deemed to have these problems.

Very Polite Person's redraft was met with a rejection from @Bonadea, with a justification of "Per Chetsford's source evaluation (supported by my own source checks) and the recent AfD outcome."

In response to this, I have written a rather large comment documenting Chetsford's mendacity in his "source evaluation."

If we intend to fully go forward and attempt to get this article published, how can we if one editor is lying and another is deferring to them?

Thanks so much,

Ben.Gowar (talk) 01:05, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

(AfC Comment). @Ben.Gowar, it was declined not rejected. You can still resubmit it for review if you think that Mellon is notable. Best Regards, CF-501 Falcon (talk · contribs) 01:20, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
If they are repeating this kind of behavior, I do believe you have the right to report them to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/incidents. Henihhi28 (talk) 01:22, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
NOTE: I don't really have more to offer as I primarily wanted to source things; I've said my peace for the moment. But... I think the problem here ultimately boils down to the fact that this part of Wikipedia:Notability (people) that has been the standard since we added it fifteen years ago in 2010 is that:

"If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability"

For a reason I cannot understand, this WP:BLP forDraft:Christopher Mellon is being held to some sort of drastic standard that defies and without authority exceeds WP:BASIC. -- Very Polite Person (talk) 01:28, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
I'm happy to explain it. WP:BASIC does not free one from the necessity of meeting the standard of WP:SIGCOV for sources used to establish the WP:N of a subject. It simply affirms that multiple sources may collectively establish the substantiality of coverage. But each source used to affirm N must still crest the threshold of SIGCOV. In the case of Mellon, it doesn't matter if you have 10,000 articles that simply attribute 1-2 sentence quotes to him; these don't collectively transmutate into SIGCOV by alchemically mashing them altogether. I hope that helps but please don't hesitate to ask for further clarification. Chetsford (talk) 02:14, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Ben.Gowar - I apologize as I don't have time at the moment to read your entire note, but I note the first instance you raised of me "lying" is because I used the term "flying saucer" instead of the term "UAP" which is the term you apparently prefer. I'm not certain that necessarily constitutes "lying" anymore than someone interchangeably using the term "ultramarine" instead of "cobalt" to describe a specific shade of blue. Either way, I apologize if I used imprecise terminology in discussion and this offended you. But I hope you can take confidence that the term used I'm certain did not impact anyone's ultimate determination as the underlying issue was that the source in question lacked SIGCOV.
Insofar as my "actively commenting" on the draft, I'm an AfC reviewer and actively comment on many drafts, this one was no exception. (In fact, while I could have declined the draft myself, I proactively chose not to do so as I nominated the previous article for deletion and I felt it was necessary other editors look at your draft to make the decision to decline or accept it independently, which is ultimately what occurred.) This is a fairly normal and rote process of AfC. The only unusual part of this is that I have never seen non-AfC reviewers leave messages in the review section (particularly messages of such robustness) as you and VPP did. While not (I don't think) proscriptive, it is rather atypical. That said, if you feel I acted inappropriately at any point in this process, I encourage you to raise your concerns at WP:ANI. Chetsford (talk) 02:02, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Howdy @Chetsford,
You did not offend me. However, if you mosey on down to the flying saucer article, you will find the second sentence to be: "Not to be confused with Unidentified flying object." So, no: I do not take confidence in your certitude.
As far as other editors looking at "my draft," well, my draft wasn't submitted. However, given that you commented on the draft that was submitted before @Bonadea ever did, and given that Bonadea cited your comment as a justification for declination, I would scarcely call Bonadea's decision "independent."
My feelings about your conduct are not relevant. My arguments are. Ben.Gowar (talk) 03:44, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
I removed that disambiguation hatnote because it directly contradicted the first sentence of the article describing it as a specific type of UFO. Sesquilinear (talk) 06:10, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
@Ben.Gowar: Accusing another editor of deliberately lying is a form of casting aspersions. @Chetsford: is allowed to voice their own opinion on whether a source is trivial or not according to their assessment. If you, I, or any other editor disagrees, that doesn't prove anything except a difference of opinion. To contribute to Wikipedia, you have to adhere to its policies on Wikipedia:Civility, and that means no personal attacks. Making a post just to accuse another editor of lying and an AfC reviewer (@Bonadea: of not doing their job is unacceptable. I'd like for you to be able to keep on working on your draft, but while you're doing that you have to act appropriately. BuySomeApples (talk) 02:33, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Thanks @BuySomeApples. Based on the casting aspersions information page, I can accuse an editor of lying as long as I have evidence and level the accusation in the appropriate place. In this case, I was indeed asking what to do in the case of a particular editor lying (with the evidence cited). So, it sounds like I should have anonymized my inquiry. In any case, I will head on over to the administrator's noticeboard/Incidents.
Oh, by the way, the number of mentions of a given person in a given source is not a matter of opinion. Nor is whether a source has been used in a previous draft or not.
But thanks,
Ben.Gowar (talk) 03:21, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
@Ben.Gowar: I don't think going to ANI will have the results you're hoping for, but go ahead. I'll let the other editors and admins continue helping you with your draft since I think I've given you all the advice I can. BuySomeApples (talk) 03:25, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
I suppose no one can force anyone else to stop lying, not even the ANI.
Thank you for your effort anway,
Ben.Gowar (talk) 03:28, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Medium (website)

Is Medium a reliable source? — ArćRèv • talk 07:48, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Hi, @Arc Rev! Basically, Medium is a website which hosts user-made blogs. Anybody can write them and there's no editorial oversight, which means nobody officially fact checks the blog posts, and there's no guarantee users will correct the posts if they make mistakes. As such, it's considered a generally unreliable source by the Wikipedia community. You can read more about that here: WP:MEDIUM.
There's one exception to that - if the person writing the Medium post is a recognized subject matter expert talking about their field of expertise, or they're talking about themselves. For example, if a highly respected professor who specialized in Chinese film wrote a blog post analyzing a film from the 1950s, you might be able to cite that, or if a famous actor announced their birthdate on their blog, you could cite that. But that's about it, I'm afraid. You can read more on using self-published sources (like medium) at WP:SPS. (And especially note the part of the guideline which says you can't use self-published sources for information about living people who didn't write the source - lots of newbies get triped up on that, but it's an important part of our sourcing requirements for articles about living people. Can never be too careful there, you know?) GreenLipstickLesbian💌🦋 08:01, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Sorting references

Hi, I am working on Draft:Aramean people, the references at the bottom carry the entire reference, whereas on other articles only the author, year and page of the source is mentioned, when highlighting over it, it shows the entire reference. How can I apply this to my draft as well?

Wlaak (talk) 11:02, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

@Wlaak Your draft uses a form of referencing which is common on short articles where everything goes into a single set of references, usually with the template {{reflist}} at the foot. Some articles, including Arameans use an alternative which is best when the sources are books (listed out separately) and then a section where multiple templates {{sfn}}, which stands for "shortened footnotes" in the main text are gathered together. Either type of referencing is perfectly acceptable and if I were you I'd wait until the draft is accepted before worrying about changing the reference style. However, there is a third alternative for citing book, which is to use just one book reference and then place the template {{rp}} each time you refer to the same book, which allows you to specify the page range for that piece of information. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:55, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Okay, thank you! Wlaak (talk) 13:42, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Sections aren't showing up

In the article that I am creating (Draft:2024–25 in European women's basketball) every league below Russia has been severely altercated and when I show a preview of an edit, it says the following: Warning: Post-expand include size is too large. Some templates will not be included. Also, at the bottom, it says broken ref. I am confused about this because my article, despite being big, is smaller than other articles I looked at for comparison and they all work. ILoveSport2006 (talk) 16:37, 4 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello, @ILoveSport2006. It's not the size of the article per se but the number and complexity of templates used: either you'll need to simplify some of the tables, or split the article up. ColinFine (talk) 18:53, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Am I allowed to split the article into a page 1 and 2, or will people moan about it? ILoveSport2006 (talk) 20:26, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
No, that is not permitted, ILoveSport2006. You can split the draft article into two drafts about discrete though related topics. Or, simplify your formatting especially tables, using similar articles as an example. Please do not describe other editors expecting you to do things properly as "moaning". Cullen328 (talk) 21:16, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
You can split the draft article into two drafts about discrete though related topics, Can you please give me an example? ILoveSport2006 (talk) 21:31, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
@ILoveSport2006: You cannot call them "page 1" and "page 2". It's an alphabetical list (apart from Pan European) so you could add ": A–K" and ": L–Z". This colon form is preferred at WP:NCSPLITLIST. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:55, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Like this: Draft:2024–25 in European women's basketball (A–K) and Draft:2024–25 in European women's basketball (L–Z) ILoveSport2006 (talk) 22:59, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
@ILoveSport2006: This form with parentheses is also acceptable at WP:NCSPLITLIST. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:04, 4 May 2025 (UTC)
Ok, I'll do that, thanks! ILoveSport2006 (talk) 09:34, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

What am I supposed to do if I think there are two different articles dedicated for the same person?

Hello everyone.

I recently came across an article for Balwantrai Mehta, I added the required information to this article, but while trying to verify some information, I came across a different article for Balvantray Mehta. The second article doesn't contain much information except the date of birth and the constituency that they represented. I believe that both these articles are referencing the same person. What am I supposed to do in this situation? Please help me out. Rohitm2000 (talk) 00:35, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

@Rohitm2000, looks like someone has already fixed this for you. -- asilvering (talk) 01:21, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
I did; converted it to a redirect. 😁 Kaasterly (talk) 01:23, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Thank you Rohitm2000 (talk) 01:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
And thank you for bringing it to our attention! Kaasterly (talk) 01:26, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

How do I leave Wikipedia and leave this account behind?

OP blocked. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:57, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I don’t really want to be associated with this account anymore. It has my old name and I just want a fresh start and I don’t want to beef with editors anymore, is there a way I can just delete my account and move on? Thanks TzarN64 (talk) 01:08, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

Hello @TzarN64. What you're looking for sounds like WP:CLEANSTART, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen per it's criteria.
I'm not entirely sure what you're asking for though.
If you want to permanently abandon Wikipedia forever, you can request a courtesy WP:VANISH, if you're deemed deserving of one. Good luck with whatever you're doing in the future. Tarlby (t) (c) 01:20, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Well I keep making mistakes so I don’t intend on editing Wikipedia again for a good while so thanks for the offer I’m going too vanish and resolve my blocks at test Wikipedia. Thank you TzarN64 (talk) 01:24, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
@TzarN64, what you're looking for is WP:VANISH and WP:CLEANSTART. You're not presently eligible for the former, because you intend to keep editing, nor are you eligible for the latter, because you have an active restriction on your account. You'll have to appeal the restriction first. -- asilvering (talk) 01:20, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
How do I fix my 1rr TzarN64 (talk) 01:21, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
You'll have to appeal it at WP:AN. Normally I wouldn't suggest doing that so soon after being unblocked. Hold out for at least another couple of months if you can. -- asilvering (talk) 01:25, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Thank you aslivering. I think you’re one of the best admins here aside from seorge numbers whatever his name is. I think I’ll be leaving Wikipedia for a good while now TzarN64 (talk) 01:26, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
If you're going to be gone for quite a long time - say, 3+ years again - you may as well just start with a brand-new account, like a clean start. Yes, that's against the rules, technically speaking, but no one will notice unless you do something stupid and obvious that links the two accounts. Be free. -- asilvering (talk) 01:36, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Given they made four socks to disrupt a discussion about their behavior on ANI... - The Bushranger One ping only 04:19, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Sigh. After this conversation and everything. -- asilvering (talk) 04:30, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
You have to make efforts to demonstrate that you understand why you were given that restriction. You also ought not to worry about being able to revert multiple times, you instead need to slow down and listen to what people are saying is wrong. Why are you following certain users? Why are you nominating articles for Good article status despite repeated concerns? Why are you leaving warnings that don't apply? Cukie Gherkin (talk) 01:27, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
For example, I rarely revert more than once unless an edit is blatant vandalism, and even then, I usually seek intervention from an admin if it's constant and persistent. Cukie Gherkin (talk) 01:28, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

How can I find drafts for a topic created by a specific user?

Hi, I am a user of Japanese Wikipedia. Immanuelle was indefinitely blocked here, and since then he has created many articles, templates, and categories on Japanese Wikipedia. These are suspected to be machine translations of drafts he created here. For example, he created "Template:徳川信仰（Template:Tokugawa Faith）", but this term does not exist. Our community is not a system where you write a draft first and then publish it as an article. Therefore, I do not know how to find drafts that seem to correspond to a certain article. Can someone tell me how to find it? I do not want to waste other users' time verifying works that were poorly created by users who do not pay attention to the accuracy of the translations. I hope that clarifying the source of these translations will simplify the process of these deletion requests. I need some help, please. These English expressions are my own speculation.

There are many other templates he has created for the Japanese Wikipedia besides the ones I have introduced here, but at first glance they contain a number of incorrect terms, so I do not plan to verify them one by one but will delete them all at once. This may be an unnecessary concern, but I am concerned that the questionable templates, categories, and articles he created here continue to exist. 呉野(KURENO) (talk) 09:26, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

You can examine the user's edit history here, Special:Contributions/Immanuelle though they have over 55,000 edits. 331dot (talk) 09:32, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Further to what @331dot said, @呉野, within the Contributions page, you can pick "Search for contributions", then select namespace "Draft:" and check "Only show edits that are page creations". This will give you only edits where the user created a draft. ColinFine (talk) 10:05, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
[5] and [6] might help. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:30, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
Thank you so much! I appreciate your help.--呉野(KURENO) (talk) 11:22, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

(Don't answer this nosense) I Give Up On Wikipedia.

Nothing to see here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:35, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

What's the point of helping out and get your xontribution deleted in 5 seconds. See: Talk:Minecraft#Improvement Deletion. It is not an excuse to say that the admins/users/... havent seen / answered already since if the have time to revert changes, they defintelly have time to answer. No one should contribute to Wikipedia, A lot of Admins Are Corrupted . Help me please, as this seems the only logical space, In wikipedia. Mant08 (talk) 19:51, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

This does not seem to be a genuine request for help, but an attempt to forum shop. You are required to assume good faith regarding the actions of other editors.
Is there anything, specific and practical, that you do need help with? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:09, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
With all respect, please see this page. PhoenixCaelestis (Talk · Contributions) 20:09, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
That you're not being told what you want to hear does not mean that admins are "corrupt". 331dot (talk) 20:18, 5 May 2025 (UTC)

@Andy Mabbett @PhoenixCaelestis @331dot OK, indeed this is a missuse of the Teahouse. I am sorry to anyone for that. That was out of frustation, and improper behaviour. Also, I wasn't aware of the policy of not to mention disputes on multiple talk pages. The message was not in of malignant intent. I sent the message here as i wanted to ask help on how to participate on disputes, but this isn't needed since wikipedia already has a guide. I though the other editors were acting with a bad intent, so it was a "special" (sounds ridiculous) case, were wikipedia needed saving. Should i probably delete this before it gets archived? P.S.: @331dot Now reading my message I indeed sound spoiled. ):Mant08

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